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How Long For A Responce

#1 User is offline   daCattt 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 01:40 AM

Later part of last week I go to check the ppp board I monitor. (I keep a window open when I on, and just refresh.) and it shows me logged out. I hit refresh. Needs me to log in. I log in and am rudely greeted w/ FROZEN.

Totally out of the blue.

I click to see reason. Says I self froze. HUH?????? I was just on the system a few hours before, had never logged out. Never received notification... nothing. Just Gone!

I click on links to try and find out what happened, and get some rude messages again, then to the ticket system. There's this massive form, asking me to remember everything in my account, all my purchases, all my code redemption and all kinds of other things. !!!!! (They're kidding aren't they?)

So I filled out what I could...

How long do they take to answer????

I'm not going to let it drag out. I've got (sad to say) multiple hundreds of dollars in that account. They don't get to treat this like a "free" account. If I wait too long, I don't have the same legal options... from the credit card companies... so I'd rather try easier than harder...

Any clue on the average responce?

#2 User is offline   Pefka 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 03:20 AM

It's going to take a while, unfortunately. Sometimes they respond fast, but it's much more likely to take some weeks.

Good luck getting your account back :D I'm also still waiting on mine - been over a week now ^^

#3 User is offline   Grog 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:15 AM

View PostdaCattt, on 08 November 2011 - 01:40 AM, said:

I click on links to try and find out what happened, and get some rude messages again, then to the ticket system. There's this massive form, asking me to remember everything in my account, all my purchases, all my code redemption and all kinds of other things. !!!!! (They're kidding aren't they?)

No, they are not kidding. It may seem like a big hassle at first, but the truth is that the massive form is there to protect you and your account - there is so much information there that hopefully only the real, true owner of the account will know even a good fraction of that info.

Good luck getting your account issue straightened out!

#4 User is offline   User221 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 09:02 AM

It can be ridiculous but as long as I had enough key things it usually works for me. It's better to have less and be accurate than more and totally overshoot the target.

#5 User is offline   HarleKlown 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 02:34 PM

I hear it takes at least a week to several months, depending on how generous they're feeling, I guess. :huh:

#6 User is offline   daCattt 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:22 PM

-- Several months.

Not going to be that patience. I'm sure my first line of defense - freezing access to honestly bought items, even if they're virtual, MUST be filed in under 30 days to get the credit card company involved.

When they start dealing with taking large amounts of customer's money for their virtual items, they created a fiduciary obligation to the customers purchasing these "items". By withholding access... Sigh. Why can't they just have adequate customer service and be professional about contact? I hate writing legal letters.



-- No, they are not kidding. It may seem like a big hassle at first, but the truth is that the massive form is there to protect you and your account - there is so much information there that hopefully only the real, true owner of the account will know even a good fraction of that info.

Well that's just double fun, Not.

They do not provide a way for us to print out the info. They do not tell us in advance that we must maintain this info if they choose to take our account.

I have a seizure disorder, so even if I wanted to maintain the details of dozens and dozens of pages of virtual items.... my brain isn't going to let me. I've been re-reading their terms of service. Keeping this information is not required. So, the though that they would choose to withhold the account from someone w/ a medical disability...

Larger sigh....

Folks just seem to roll over and accept whatever neopets chooses to do, or not do. I play neopets and petpet park to relax, and light things when I'm not feeling great.... gee, is that time going to need to be spent playing legal games??? Heck, I've got the time now.

Fun ahead... not.

(Sorry, folks don't mean to be grumpy... but I miss my account. If it wasn't frozen, I'd be having fun w/ my berry gallery, or helping folks in Petpet Park. Instead, I get to be grownup and research legal options. Yea, it's making me grumpy.)

#7 User is offline   Pefka 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:28 PM

You might want to take a look at the Petpet Park form as well. It's much shorter and asks for Park-specific details instead (such as backpack items, so if you remember what jobs or harvestables you've got recently you can fill it out quite a lot).

It's fine to be grumpy, this is in no way enjoyable :) Personally I've just been doing stuff offline, and have instead relied on other staff members (Illy <3) to provide me accurate item info for item adding xD

#8 User is offline   User221 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:41 PM

The only thing that comes to mind is that if the account is self frozen (as in, the remove account form self frozen, the only one I'm aware of) there might be a security risk in either someone knowing your password or someone else using the computer. While you're waiting you might want to tie up some loose ends there and see if anything comes up.

Just don't get too drastic. If you do attempt to refund items and that goes through it's very well possible the account will be permanently locked for some other violation.

#9 User is offline   daCattt 

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:41 PM

-- The only thing that comes to mind is that if the account is self frozen (as in, the remove account form self frozen,

See, there's the fun part. They're saying I self froze. And yet on my computer, the ppp message board window was still up, and I just hit refresh to update the board. I typed in nothing else. I got no notice on my e-mail, like even a confirmation that I was requesting a self freeze. Nothing but links to their rude messages, and silence.

-- the only one I'm aware of) there might be a security risk in either someone knowing your password or someone else using the computer. While you're waiting you might want to tie up some loose ends there and see if anything comes up.

Well, my ppp account is still good and what I have left on the last $50 buy of NC was still there. But I play ppp to help, not to find new pink tiaras. If anyone had cracked my account, I'd assume the NC would be gone in a flash.

While "I'm waiting" guess I need to start going though my deleted mail, and digging up what I can on receipts from those e-mails. (As mentioned before, they didn't say we needed to file them.) Am spending way to much time building up a file to send them proving purchases.... and time spent on that, coming to a crisp boil.

-- Just don't get too drastic.

Not planning on being drastic. I'm not pummeling them with multiple messages. Am waiting a few days (and being generous, about business days figuring in.) Plan to stay polite but firm. Am discussing this with folks different places to find out what their habits are. Learning, and researching my options. Not interested in begging. Just having an adjust discussion w/ someone there. Finding the "months" issue discouraging... but telling that I need to be proactive.

-- If you do attempt to refund items and that goes through it's very well possible the account will be permanently locked for some other violation.

Ah... what other violations??? Asking that they correct their mistake in a timely manner?

That sounds like some intern in customer service would say... to maintain control over customers.. and have the customer shaking in their boots promising to be "nice" so nothing worse happens to their account. (Absolutely no offense meant towards you... just know that's a fear tactic used in some customer service departments. They get away with it enough to make folks think that it's valid. Sorry, big NO vote to bullies.)

I'm just looking at valid legal options I have... vs. their fear-mongering. Not just sitting still because someone they "might" get offended for me mentioning I have legal rights attached to purchases... especially ones that might be time limited if I just sit on my hands. I know there are lots of rights that they don't like their customers to have. Having knowledge is not a freezable offense. Insisting on rights is not a freezable offense. At least not yet.

Just saying....

-Cat-

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 09:45 PM

If it's just your Neopets account that's frozen it could very well be glitched. I've had it happen on a side account and a check to execute is whether or not it displays an error if you try to Neomail to the account. In my case while the account appeared to be frozen I was greeted with "You should have no problems Neomailing this user" whenever I attempted to send mail.

In the four times I've self frozen there was no email confirmation.

Remember to put important data on top and use that first. If you've got 100% accuracy but only 20 documents it'll do better than 80% accuracy with 50 documents. I had multiple emails with my accounts and if you can use all of those it'll give you a huge step forward.

I believe if a chargeback is issued (or whatever term is used to indicate money spent on NC is reversed) TNT has stated the account will be permanently frozen due to fraud (promising funds and then removing them). I would prefer the version Blizzard uses in that the account is locked and a money order is required to unlock it.

That's why I suggested to be careful to exercise which legal rights you have. I never invested in the NC Mall because I knew it was backed with no guarantees or warranties (please hear me out, most if not all pet sites have the same ideology). If you choose that route just gotta choose wisely...Depending on how strong the Terms are legally they can still go by the 'we can freeze because we can' route which is valid for a free to play game.

#11 User is offline   daCattt 

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 01:58 AM

-- If it's just your Neopets account that's frozen it could very well be glitched. ...

Hummmmm, will have some friends check that out for me. I'm not interested in creating another account.

-- Remember to put important data on top and use that first. If you've got 100% accuracy but only 20 documents it'll do better than 80% accuracy with 50 documents.

Not sure what rates as important data, but I'll be putting together any of the receipts I can find. Guess I need to put them in one long one. If I attach 20 documents, they might consider it spam. Guess I'll start w/ just the bodies and tell them I have full header information.

-- I had multiple emails with my accounts and if you can use all of those it'll give you a huge step forward.

Hummmm... can't do that. Only used one e-mail w/ the game... own the url through... so don't know if that makes it better or worse.

-- I believe if a chargeback is issued (or whatever term is used to indicate money spent on NC is reversed)

Oh, not thinking of chargeback. The NC was charged on a platinum AMX card. It has lovely little warranty features. Is why almost everything goes though it. One phone call activating the special features... Hilton Hotel chain sat up and begged, then barked like a dog. It's a VERY nice card with nice little features. It can do small things, or save a whole conference and reserve half the room in a hotel at the same time. Magic little piece of plastic.

-- TNT has stated the account will be permanently frozen due to fraud (promising funds and then removing them).

Nope, fraud is the other way around if TNT is just taking the money -- keeping it w/o allowing the customer access to their money. They're not allowed just to take money and ignore. That's all I'm looking for ... communication. Like I said before... real customer service for real money being spent.

-- That's why I suggested to be careful to exercise which legal rights you have.

See, I don't flow that way... not anymore. Tired of getting run over. Tired of folks taking just because they bully. I stand up to bullies now, mostly for other people... but hey, what's wrong w/ standing up for myself. Law is law. They assume that folks will just scurry away because they're big boy. I'm a computer geek. Not a lawyer but got quite a bit of ground in all kinds of consumer law... and the reality side from da guys that bill more per hours than any of us pay in rent a month.

-- I never invested in the NC Mall because I knew it was backed with no guarantees or warranties (please hear me out, most if not all pet sites have the same ideology).

I resisted quite a while. Eventually gave in because I wanted things for my berry gallery. That broke the wall. Spent in streaks. Too much for a while, and then pulled back. Honestly, I want my account back for my berry gallery. Has things in it, even if I wanted to, couldn't get anymore. The NC gives me the legal window.

The pet sites can have any ideology they want... but they live in the US, and have certain laws to follow. Since I can't play the game now... got plenty of time to figure out my rights.


-- If you choose that route just gotta choose wisely...Depending on how strong the Terms are legally they can still go by the 'we can freeze because we can' route which is valid for a free to play game.

They may have started as a free-to-play... but they cross into a different area with the cash. Not intending to go head-to-head w/ them on any specific virtual item... there's another angle. They don't get to stamp their feed like a 3 year old, or a studio, and say something is the law just because they say so. (Worked at a studio, know their games.... and #1 tactic is bulling. But they're so afraid of sunlight.... or pushing anything too far up their own legal chain.)

-Cat-

#12 User is offline   Grog 

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 08:34 AM

View PostPefka, on 08 November 2011 - 04:28 PM, said:

It's fine to be grumpy, this is in no way enjoyable :)

I don't know if I could have said it better.

Quote

They're not allowed just to take money and ignore.

While this should be the way it is, the T&C state in no uncertain terms that as soon as you purchase NC that your money is theirs now and they don't owe you bupkis in return.

#3 would be very germane to your situation, I believe: http://ncmall.neopet...ing-rules.phtml

#13 User is offline   Raven Rose 

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 10:59 AM

dacatt, I remember you from the PPP board, assuming your username here is similar to the one for neopets. I used to post where i found the hearts for valentines day and occasionally help with finding quests. My UN is bumblelion13 but now I usually use a side account to post now.
My main account was compromised at the end of August and it took 5 weeks to get it back. Since this current uptick of accounts being compromised began, around the end of August, it has been taking a month for most players to get their accounts back if they provide adequate information to prove the account is theirs. There are a few that it has taken longer. These estimates are based on people who post on the "Game Over Board" thread on the games board on neopets. This thread is sort of a help/support for people who have had their accounts taken.
If your account was self-frozen, and you didn't do it then it sounds like someone got into your account and self-froze it, which is one of the things that has been happening to people's accounts.
Good luck getting your account back.

#14 User is offline   User221 

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:50 PM

Quote

Oh, not thinking of chargeback. The NC was charged on a platinum AMX card. It has lovely little warranty features. Is why almost everything goes though it. One phone call activating the special features... Hilton Hotel chain sat up and begged, then barked like a dog. It's a VERY nice card with nice little features. It can do small things, or save a whole conference and reserve half the room in a hotel at the same time. Magic little piece of plastic.


And that magic doesn't work on Neopets. Unlike a specific Hilton location Neopets has tons and tons of users. With their lack of staff they're not going to sort through all of that and place a permanent ban on your account if you attempt to reverse funds if it succeeds. It won't work on virtual 'gaming' purchases simply because it's not a tangible asset. Now if it's a virtual plane ticket that's linked to a physical plane then yes it's tangible.

Quote

Nope, fraud is the other way around if TNT is just taking the money -- keeping it w/o allowing the customer access to their money. They're not allowed just to take money and ignore. That's all I'm looking for ... communication. Like I said before... real customer service for real money being spent.


If I were to write a hot check that would be me committing fraud.

All I can say is that NC doesn't impact the core gameplay. It's not like others to where small boosters give players an unfair edge over free. At least TNT has still remained on that stance for a few years.

Just good luck and hope they get everything straightened out.

#15 User is offline   daCattt 

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:28 PM

(Sorry I'm a day late in replaying back. This is game, yesterday was all Real Life.)
Going to run all replies together...


-- -- They're not allowed just to take money and ignore.

-- While this should be the way it is, the T&C state in no uncertain terms that as soon as you purchase NC that your money is theirs now and they don't owe you bupkis in return.
-- #3 would be very germane to your situation, I believe: http://ncmall.neopet...ing-rules.phtml

Yup... that's a good link... Call your attention back to "If any provision of these Shopping Rules is found to be illegal or unenforceable, the Shopping Rules will be curtailed to the extent necessary to make it legal and enforceable and will remain, as modified, in full force and effect. "

That's the boiler plate that gets put in because they know that not everything they have in their rules is legal or enforceable.

*********************************
--dacatt, I remember you from the PPP board, assuming your username here is similar to the one for neopets. I used to post where i found the hearts for valentines day and occasionally help with finding quests

Waves, Hi! Yup... daCattt is one of my two handles I use out there in internet-land. Not too unique. Just look for the beat up tiger.

The fun part of ppp is figuring out the bugs and helping others. Amazing how much I missed it last night w/ their big Thursday midnight update. I wasn't typing in find and hints. Was sad.

-- My main account was compromised at the end of August and it took 5 weeks to get it back.

Sorry to hear that. The amount of time SUCKS. Neo is digging themselves in a hole w/ accounts that pay money for things, be it premium or NC. A contact is created. Them not "having enough staff" may be a tacky excuse for folks playing a free-to-play game. But once that legal contact is created.. sorry... the "we don't have enough staff" to complete our obligation... doesn't fly in the counts. Judges roll their eyes.

-- Since this current uptick of accounts being compromised began, around the end of August, it has been taking a month for most players to get their accounts back if they provide adequate information to prove the account is theirs.

Not sure how this is a compromised account issue... but given that Neo is silent...really hard to tell. All we can do is talk to other folks. Don't like rumors over fact... but they're not giving us anything else. Since they're calling my account frozen, I can't add extra info to my ticket, or see if there's any status update. More than a little lame, IMHO.

If that form from Neo demanding a list of what you're pet is equipped with, what in your SDB, what special code items you've redeemed is the bar that Neo is using... all the while not giving us an option to archive this info on our own computers is not acceptable. Doesn't matter how much I love my berry gallery. Even w/ Jellyneo's wonderful item base I couldn't figure out exactly what was in my gallery, and they want to know what's in my SDB. Couldn't even list the berry items in there. I could in great detail list how I order my gallery on berry, type and color, but not list the items. But that wouldn't matter to them. I have seizures. Memory won't go on those kinds of lists. Unfair is the politest thing I could say about that... (and really want to say some non-polite things... but am resisting.)

Now if they asked, list as many IP addresses as you can where you've logged on to your account... That's easy. That's something a scammer wouldn't have access to... but no... they've got an impossible request, that a scammer, knowing they like item lists, could do as soon as they snag the account.

-- There are a few that it has taken longer. These estimates are based on people who post on the "Game Over Board" thread on the games board on neopets. This thread is sort of a help/support for people who have had their accounts taken.

Thank you for the suggestions.... but like... ah... I'm really going to depend on the advice from a moderated board on Neo where they can delete anyone who says something they don't like, and/or use a posting as an excuse to do a full freeze under some warped "for cause". No thank you. That I would sign up for a new account that might even give them a few pennies of add revenue when they are illegally preventing me from accessing content (not sure what else to call the virtual goods.. but next step is to find out) that I validly paid for... ah... no way. But, that's what they want you to do. Really not interested in feeding into that cycle. I don't need to just commiserate and mourn will fellow gamers that have been nailed by the corporation. Not only don't I need it... but if I need to do something to feel better, I work on fixing it.... and I'm a bit of a campaigners... Like to fix it for everyone.

-- If your account was self-frozen, and you didn't do it then it sounds like someone got into your account and self-froze it, which is one of the things that has been happening to people's accounts.

And, it still doesn't seem my account was scammed. It still has NC on it, and my password is still good... and the ppp part of the account still works. BUT... not hearing from Neo. Don't know if it's just a bug they're working on.. or what. Communication would help a lot.

Figure both the NC would have vanished, and the pw would have changed.

************************************************************************8
-- -- magic little piece of plastic.

-- And that magic doesn't work on Neopets. Unlike a specific Hilton location Neopets has tons and tons of users.

Who's talking about a single Hilton location. Took about 45 minutes. The local big-city Hilton's manager got a call from Hilton's corporate... and told they were in violation of a contact with AMX. Fix it now. Because they way overbooked their hotel, it cost them moving the other conference attendees to another hotel, pay for bus rentals, pick up the cost of one of our buffet events as an apology. One of our hotel folks followed up later. Hilton changed their corporate rules.

Not a brag of any kind. It's just... I'm not a 15-year-old kid, or a housewife from Butte, Montanan. (Apologies to anyone who's 15, a housewife, or from Butte.) I play in the real world, make real world changes. Do not like big companies bulling me... or anyone else. I go and fix... whether it's something like fixing hotel arrangements, or bigger things like a phone companies ######iest service policies (or their illegal customer service actions), TV folks filming folks in non-news situations w/o their permission, or other things that business do to folks I like.

I'm probably spending too much time just yakking here because I'm trying to calm down, and don't want to start a full storm. Seeking a legal reality check will most like get the folks on the front line in trouble at Neo, not the folks that create the issue of too much happening for their employees to handle because it's all just number crunching... and they consider the players marks, not customers. But... also not going to take it laying down. So... I chat here and a few other places... finding out that this behavior of Neo's is a pattern of action. not just a glitch. Their company is choosing to do this.

-- With their lack of staff they're not going to sort through all of that and place a permanent ban on your account if you attempt to reverse funds if it succeeds.

Ever wonder why some many folks can reverse their payments??? Because it's legal when a company breaks their end of the agreement. The game ending and shutting down is a valid reason for denying access. Just because they can't be bothered to handle the problem is not.

-- It won't work on virtual 'gaming' purchases simply because it's not a tangible asset. Now if it's a virtual plane ticket that's linked to a physical plane then yes it's tangible.

Doesn't have to be a physical item. They are not allowed to pretend to sell, and then block access... just because they can.... or because they can't be bothered... or are too busy. They Sold. They created a Contract. Haven't seen anything from them stopping taking payment because they can't handle the paying customer base they currently have. That becomes fraud on the part of the company. And in many case... from what I'm reading around during my research... fraud against children. Bad for Neo. Bad for Nick. Really bad PR. I really don't understand why companies do stuff like that.... ok, beyond greed... but...


-- If I were to write a hot check that would be me committing fraud.

See, you're swallowing the corporate Kool-aid. (No offense meant.) They've got unenforceable items in their TOCs... but it's not illegal to put them in, or talk like those terms legal. Some haven't been proven yet. Some have been proved unenforceable.

Seeking a refund when an item or SERVICE is not provided, is not illegal. "Hot check" is just a hot term to say the other side is wrong. Doesn't matter if the allegory is wrong, speak loudly and sound like you're right, and threaten to back it up with our in-house legal team... cows down most folks.

But like I said at the beginning. Don't like bullies. I like to fix.

The reason that credit card companies can refund is because the corporation that the money was sent to, has messed up in some way. AMX has extra warranty options... though giving time limits, I'm thinking of going more general at this point.

-- All I can say is that NC doesn't impact the core gameplay. It's not like others to where small boosters give players an unfair edge over free. At least TNT has still remained on that stance for a few years.

Again, that doesn't have anything to do with the basic point. They've accepted money, a fair amount of money. Created a contract. They are blocking access... and don't appear to even be making a good-faith effort to fix.


Oh well, tomorrow makes a week. Time to prep a 2nd query, and a letter. Google gives such wonderful access to e-mail addresses.


And just a note on what I'm finding... even if 90% of the folks are lying and they were breaking rules... that are a real lot of folks out there that Neo has just bullied and blocked.

Ain't the real world fun?

-Cat-

PS: I don't want to get the fine folks at Jelly in trouble but anyone that wants to contact me off line, please feel free to message and we can talk legal in more detail... but off line.

This post has been edited by daCattt: 10 November 2011 - 09:30 PM


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