[steven2010]

GUESS WHAT! IT'S NOT A THREAD ON BILLS ABOUT CONTROLLING THE INTERNET!


The video (Beware, language on the part of the daughter)

The Know Your Meme page which also has some video responses to this (possible language warning)



This is one of things that while I agree with one side that one side is just something I don't completely agree or approve of.
The more I think about the dad's actions the more I just dislike it.

Basically, right now, I just can't help but see it as this

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/248/120/80f.png

Discuss.

[Milo]

Yeah I thought this was funny at first and then I put thought into it. No wonder the kid's a brat; she must get it from her dad.

and the giant mob of Youtube commenters talking about how this generation is awful is sort of hilariously pathetic but mostly just discriminatory and offensive.

[steven2010]

I spent some time lurking on The Escapist's thread on this subject and I found a pretty convincing argument in the daughter's case

Spoiler

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Unpopular opinion time:

No.

This is not ok.

If you have messed up so badly at parenting that your kid is making posts like the above, property destruction and implied violence aren't appropriate responses. This is not how functional adult people behave.

Hannah, in the video, doesn't respect her father.

Given that her father invades her privacy, undermines her personal agency, and doesn't have basic trust for her....I fully comprehend why she doesn't. Respect is earned and taught. If Hannah posts giant, frustrated rants about her chore load, it probably implies that she doesn't feel that her efforts are appreciated or that she's an integral member of the family or household (alienation and over individuation is a huge problem for teens; it's part of the formation of adult identity separate from parents and kind of a huge trap.

Teenagers are frustrated because their lives are absurd. They're expected to have adult behavior with no adult agency. Maturity and decision making are learned skills. If parents don't like the way their teens are behaving, they need to ask themselves where that behavior was learned. If she feels entitled, what have you been doing -her entire life- to communicate the real value of what she has and should be grateful for? If she refers to the woman who cleans for you as 'the cleaning lady' is that because she's noted that you treat that woman that way? Asking for payment for work is not unreasonable; it's an understanding of capitalism. A less rude response than 'are you out of your mind' would be a basic rundown of the costs of the household in terms of food, heating, etc and what percentage of that Hannah should reasonably be responsible for. Given that she has no economic agency of her own, expressing to her that her chores are a means of repayment for that.

I grew up -poor- and my parents were still giving me an allowance by the time I was ten because that's how you teach kids how to manage earned income. I received a dollar a week (upgraded to five dollars a week when I was 12) for completing a list of chores. If they weren't done, I didn't get paid. Just like you don't get paid at a job if you don't show up. My parents also stopped buying luxury items for me around that age and made me buy them myself with earned and saved income from my chores, babysitting, recycling cans, making crafts and selling them, whatever. My parents helped me find jobs and gave me suggestions about what I could so to earn money. If Hannah is fifteen, she cannot legally obtain most forms of employment; has she been educated as to what economic opportunities are available to her? Because as a parent EDUCATING HER IS, IN FACT, YOUR JOB. You got her an application and made her apply? Did you take her with you and teach her the process of how to obtain applications and where to look for places that are hiring? Did you make sure the place you got the application from accepts underage employees (most do not) or walk her through the application process in terms of how to make herself an attractive applicant?

'When I was your age I'd moved out of the house, lived on my own, went to college while in highschool, worked two jobs, was a volunteer fireman'.... Uh....huh. And you didn't manage to impart any of this work ethic on your children, apparently. Also: You grew up in a very different economy, as a man. I'm willing to bet you had parents or other helpful adults who made you aware of the opportunities available to you. You are judging your daughter for having a different outcome than you had, when she sure didn't have the same input.

Hannah is acting out in the most trivial of ways: Ranting and commiserating with friends. and even THAT outlet is being denied her. All the people above who liked and lauded this: Would you think it was awesome if Hanna was an adult woman who'd posted a frustrated rant about her significant other, and this was the significant other's response? Or would you consider this to be emotional abuse and a redflag for accelerating relationship violence? Because that's what this is: Emotional abuse. This is abusive parenting (looks like it's in the wake of/a response to earlier emotionally negligent parenting, too).

If your kid is a spoiled brat? It is not the kid's fault. Kids aren't born spoiled brats. Parental behavior causes this. This man is reaping the seeds he has sewn, and because he's unsatisfied with what his efforts have yielded, he's responding with aggression and punishment and social humiliation.

You are a -parent-. You are not training your child to be a functional adult.If you child lacks life skills, if your child does not respect you, if your child cannot think critically or understand the value of money or comprehend the importance of maintaining a household THAT IS YOUR FAULT. This kind of extreme behavior is SERIOUSLY too little too late, and an act of aggressive desperation.

If I were advising Hannah in this situation? I'd be helping her figure out ways to get away from these people and hook her up with resources that would teach her actual life skills.

Worth noting? This dude is shooting in what is clearly a residential area. That is unsound (though not necessarily criminal in his locality) behavior. This is not something to be celebrated. Property destruction and implied violence are not things to be celebrated. Emotional abuse in response to teen behavior that results from bad parenting in the first place is not something to be celebrated.

This whole family needs to get to family counseling STAT.

I'm just finding this just to be another subject with no middle ground.

EDIT: oh my god, how did I miss the swearing.
EDIT 2: Okay, replaced the swearing with "[REDACTED]"
EDIT 3: Hey guess what, the filter still needs work

Mod Edit: Instead of replacing filtered words with "[REDACTED]"s, please remove them or replace them with appropriate words. Thank you.

[User221]

Honestly for starters I've been through 12 years of public schooling. 99% of the stuff that I've learned observed is that most bad behaviors are done via a somewhat large network and usually at school where the parent cannot control it. With the way technology is advanced it is not real to expect a parent to teach a child in the 60% of the time they're not with them during weekdays (not particularly accounting for margin of error).

With that said on the argument you've posted about the daughter's case I can counteract really awesomely:

1. Privacy does not exist on the internet. If it's submitted online not only can anyone read it but it transfers through multiple computer systems until it reaches the destination. Humorously because some passwords (hint hint) are not encrypted they're sent as plain text. Ouch. With that said if it was stored on a isolated hard drive on a computer not connected to internet and he were to hack into that system I would understand it being an invasion of privacy...But she's 15. As far as I'm aware a parent has every right to manage their children until they move out.

2. The brute force mentality that existed 50 years ago doesn't apply today. That I will agree on. When it was do or die then it is not now (except for people growing food for subsistence).

3. The parents could easily charge rent if they were to to pay her for the chores she does. Considering it appears to be in a somewhat rural area (I don't know the laws about discharging a firearm in a city but I'm pretty sure it's not OK) allowances could be possible but I wouldn't see anything to spend on. Depending on how far the supermarket it just going there once in a while as it were would be sufficient to 'waiting for X amount of time.'

4. The Internet is not an appropriate measure to vent nor post personal information. Never was and never will be. Once online it's always online and I feel trivial outlets should be done in school or somewhere with her friends to where it won't get out of hand. While I'll agree two wrongs don't make a right it's not abusive.

I don't know, what you've quoted Steven is not bad, don't get me wrong. I just feel that person isn't exactly with us in the 21st century.

[Yoshi]

I have seen this video, and I really don't know what to think of it. Help me out guys? Because.. on one hand, the daughter is not being appreciated for her chores being done and on the other hand, the father wasn't appreciated for fixing her laptop, camera, and I think $130? Soo not sure what to think of it.

[steven2010]

Hey don't get me wrong, I never said where I stand on what I quoted. I only stated it was convincing since it reminded me that we're not looking at the daughter's perspective of this.

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1. Privacy does not exist on the internet.

Sir, I give you a high five for this.
I forgot about this rule of the internet but not only this but the fact she posted on Facebook of all things is just facepalm worthy

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While I'll agree two wrongs don't make a right

THIS what I was looking for to describe my thoughts on this!

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4. The Internet is not an appropriate measure to vent nor post personal information. Never was and never will be.

However, assuming the worst, it's the closest thing.
Thinking about it further, going by this, no appropriate measure to vent exists then.

I'd like to note that it seems like you didn't counter every point though.

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Soo not sure what to think of it.

Welcome to the club.
Right now it's practically Evil vs Evil

[Yoshi]

It amuses me how people think when they set some privacy settings on Facebook, they will think its as safe as government files. Once stuff is on the internet, it STAYS there no matter the condition.

[User221]

Yoshi, on 11 February 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I have seen this video, and I really don't know what to think of it. Help me out guys? Because.. on one hand, the daughter is not being appreciated for her chores being done and on the other hand, the father wasn't appreciated for fixing her laptop, camera, and I think $130? Soo not sure what to think of it.

It's what we call a lose/lose scenario. No one wins.

steven2010, on 11 February 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Hey don't get me wrong, I never said where I stand on what I quoted. I only stated it was convincing since it reminded me that we're not looking at the daughter's perspective of this

However, assuming the worst, it's the closest thing.
Thinking about it further, going by this, no appropriate measure to vent exists then.

I'd like to note that it seems like you didn't counter every point though

You were leaning towards the middle. How you do that is awesome and I couldn't.

With that said I can easily think of a few ways. For one the father implies that his daughter has people she regularly talks to. Whether or not she goes to a public school or not I don't know but if she does go to a public school they could of easily done it without the usage of the Internet (heck they could of just used SMS for all practical purposes). Don't get me wrong if there's something I want to tell me friend I usually do it face to face or over a phone. Of course this assume people are willing to downgrade to something less convenient and more secure. You know how that goes, right?

[steven2010]

User221, on 11 February 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Yoshi, on 11 February 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I have seen this video, and I really don't know what to think of it. Help me out guys? Because.. on one hand, the daughter is not being appreciated for her chores being done and on the other hand, the father wasn't appreciated for fixing her laptop, camera, and I think $130? Soo not sure what to think of it.

It's what we call a lose/lose scenario. No one wins.

steven2010, on 11 February 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Hey don't get me wrong, I never said where I stand on what I quoted. I only stated it was convincing since it reminded me that we're not looking at the daughter's perspective of this

However, assuming the worst, it's the closest thing.
Thinking about it further, going by this, no appropriate measure to vent exists then.

I'd like to note that it seems like you didn't counter every point though

You were leaning towards the middle. How you do that is awesome and I couldn't.

With that said I can easily think of a few ways. For one the father implies that his daughter has people she regularly talks to. Whether or not she goes to a public school or not I don't know but if she does go to a public school they could of easily done it without the usage of the Internet (heck they could of just used SMS for all practical purposes). Don't get me wrong if there's something I want to tell me friend I usually do it face to face or over a phone. Of course this assume people are willing to downgrade to something less convenient and more secure. You know how that goes, right?

You didn't answer my "no appropriate measure to vent exists then." statement

Well, aside from "what if" and "assuming" statements, I really have nothing to counter this.

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You were leaning towards the middle. How you do that is awesome and I couldn't.

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It's what we call a lose/lose scenario. No one wins.

The more and more thought I put into this the closer I got to this realization which I just hit right now.

I'm just about say "forget this" and go back to the stream I'm watching

[User221]

Cause you know the only known disciplinary action is public disciplinary action. I don't approve on all of it (this one is fine) I'm pretty sure other parents have their ways with their children...Whether they're 'OK' or not.

[Yoshi]

When he stated that he almost put a bullet through it, I knew it would happen some point in the video, shooting it may be a bit extreme. You could have just sold it.

[Mabel Pines]

OH YES YOU POSTED THIS :D

I'm sort of leaning towards the dad's side of the argument, but less so then I was when I first watched the video. I've grown up in a really spoiled lifestyle. (No chores unless I feel like earning money, my parents do most things for me and usually buy me what I want or help me find ways to earn them, they find jobs for me to apply to, help me with applications, ECT. But then in return I think I'm pretty nice to them. I work hard in all the things I do have to do and I'm nice to them.) So I can't really relate to the girl and how she would feel. I'm Facebook friends with my mom so I wouldn't post anything about them there. If I wasn't I probably still wouldn't post anything about them, because even with blocking them there's other adults I'm friends with who could see it. Without them still doubt I would do this type of thing just because Facebook doesn't seem secret enough. I might post something about them here or on tumblr (if I ever figure out text posts xD ) If they found those I'd probably be grounded and have my computer taken away for a long time. It wouldn't be shot at because my dad doesn't own a gun, but it's pretty practical for them to take it away forever if I'm swearing at them and stuff. (swearing isn't allowed in our house and I never do) I'd be really upset but on their side it probably seems fair. Not doing things is one thing but being disrespectful is a lot more upsetting to adults and people in general.

I'm sure the daughter felt like things weren't fair, and it seems like her parents are pretty strict. It's probably hard to deal with, but at the same time when you've been brought up strictly your whole life it seems like it would become sort of a habit-thing to do chores and things, so it wouldn't seem like you were a slave, just helping to your family. If she doesn't get that everyone has to contribute and it'll be fair that way maybe her parents skipped an important lesson when she was younger. That would be their fault, but it still seems like she should've adjusted.

I wish I could stalk their family and know everything so I could understand it and be fully confident in my judgment. If the dad made it clear that she wasn't the cleaning lady and how important it was due to respect I could see him getting upset. But the girl might've just found it easier to call her the cleaning lady and not bother explaing the situation. We have a cleaning lady, but my mom doesn't let her clean my room unless I already have it somewhat cleaned up. I used to not get why, but my mom explained that I need to have some responsibility too and we need to be respectful and not give her a crazy amount of work or anything. It's sort of weird to me since she works for us, but it makes sense. If he didn't explain then it's their fault.

In theory I agree with the dad, but I'm not really sure. It's hard to make judgments on how families work without being there or knowing everything about the situation.

The girl probably should've found a different way to vent if she needed to do this. (as a bunch of others have said)

[Nynex]

I heard about this earlier today. That was an amazing way to deal with a rebellious teen xD Most teenagers just get all the toys and the parents just keep shoving more toys in front of them letting them have their way because they don't actually want to do any parenting at all. This dad is a hero.
Way too many spoiled kids.

[Yoshi]

The re-action videos of the video are interesting and everytime I see a video from "TheReplyGirl" in which I just skip it XD some people re-acting to it actually make sense while others........just no

[Juvia]

I think that the girl's letter just means that she desperately hates her parents and acts likes she wants to be a princess or something.